Wrong Russo Translation? #231

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MichaelYick · 2024-03-28T20:48:54Z

MichaelYick commented

2024-03-28 20:48:54 +00:00

Just got an email from russian translators about the translation we implemented into snoot game. Aparently, the one that went in was the Dvach build, not theirs, which they had sent us.

Who dun fucked? I blame @nutbuster for maybe fucking it up in #227

Just got an email from russian translators about the translation we implemented into snoot game. Aparently, the one that went in was the Dvach build, not theirs, which they had sent us. Who dun fucked? I blame @nutbuster for maybe fucking it up in #227

MichaelYick added the

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bug

labels 2024-03-28 20:48:54 +00:00

MapAnon commented

2024-03-28 20:49:41 +00:00

What is the dvach build and what's the significance of it?

MichaelYick commented

2024-03-28 20:53:16 +00:00

dvach build

russo translation from a russo imageboard

what's the significance of it

there's multiple russian translations of snoot, one of them is from dvach, another is from a translation team.
Apparently the one currently in is from dvach and is less professional than the one from the translation team, at least according to the email I got.

>dvach build russo translation from a russo imageboard >what's the significance of it there's multiple russian translations of snoot, one of them is from dvach, another is from a translation team. Apparently the one currently in is from dvach and is less professional than the one from the translation team, at least according to the email I got.

nutbuster commented

2024-03-28 20:56:16 +00:00

Took the Dvach build because it was suggested, worst case we just put both translations in Russian (Dvach), Russian (Email)*, similar to numerous repeated translations of the old & new testaments
*Whichever name they choose
proof in #226

The Russian Anons at Dvach created a translation of Snoot Game. Looking into implementing this into the game would aid in accessibility to more regions of the world.

Took the Dvach build because it was suggested, worst case we just put both translations in Russian (Dvach), Russian (Email)*, similar to numerous repeated translations of the old & new testaments *Whichever name they choose proof in #226 > [The Russian Anons at Dvach created a translation of Snoot Game](https://2ch.hk/fur/res/280230.html#285726). Looking into implementing this into the game would aid in accessibility to more regions of the world.

MichaelYick commented

2024-03-28 21:02:54 +00:00

@MapAnon, imma keep it real with chu.
im retarded and have zero clue how ren'py translations work or how to review if they're good or not.
can you deal with this part of this?

@MapAnon, imma keep it real with chu. im retarded and have zero clue how ren'py translations work or how to review if they're good or not. can you deal with this part of this?

SG8 Files (RU).zip

20 MiB

MapAnon commented

2024-03-28 22:55:40 +00:00

@MapAnon, imma keep it real with chu.
im retarded and have zero clue how ren'py translations work or how to review if they're good or not.
can you deal with this part of this?

Once I get the mod stuff done, yeah.

> @MapAnon, imma keep it real with chu. > im retarded and have zero clue how ren'py translations work or how to review if they're good or not. > can you deal with this part of this? Once I get the mod stuff done, yeah.

Gexahord commented

2024-03-30 06:56:56 +00:00

Hello, devs! RU-tl lead Snooter here. A bit of information about the differences between the Dvach build and ours, which was mentioned above. There are actually quite a few, but here are the most important ones:

Names. In Dvach build Fang's name is translated as Клык, which is not quite correct, as proper names are not translated in RU-related texts. In their translation, Fang in Russian is translated literally as, well.... fang, as a specific tooth, not as a name (this is a fairly common problem in Russian adaptations and it annoys many people). In our version her name translated correctly - Фэнг, which is a direct transliteration from English (the same situation as, for example, with the surname Black, like Sirius Black - in Russian the correct one will be and is exactly Блэк, not Черный as a color). The same goes for Naser, which was translated as Нейсер, which is partly correct, but our variant - Незер is more pleasant to the ear and does not spoil the joke with NasCar so much.
Fang's pronouns. In the Dvach version, for the most part, all characters (even Fang herself and, most incredibly, Trish) address Fang as "she", even when it's not backed up by the plot. So the part of the narrative related to her non-binarity is lost or misplayed. In our version, we tried to avoid such moments and all the lines addressed to Fang have a neutral connotation up to a certain point (3rd and 4th endings and such). It is interesting that Russian does not use the pronoun "they" in relation to a single living being as freely as English does - it is simply wrong. Furthermore, in Russian any action is tied to the gender/sex of the speaker. For example, in English you can say "I would like to give you a tip", either a woman or a man (or somebody else) can say that, there is no mistake. But in Russian, if this phrase is said by a man, he will say "Я бы хотел дать вам совет", and if it is said by a woman, she will say "Я бы хотелА дать вам совет", the ending "А" signal who exactly says this phrase - man or a woman. Russian language is quite complicated in such things as endings, suffixes, nouns and etc., it would be difficult to describe all the rules here. So we have played with these moments by rephrasing phrases in such a way that neither feminine nor masculine pronouns are mentioned (unless, of course, it's pointed out on purpose), in a way that doesn't violate both the rules of language and the narrative of the game. And yeah... it was a pretty nerve-wracking experience.
Tenses. Oh, tenses... At many points in the Dvach version, the tenses in phrases are incorrectly placed. For example, Anon may comment on something in the present tense, but in the translation it suddenly becomes past, as if he is telling a story to someone, rather than commenting on a specific action that is happening here and now. Sometimes this may be appropriate, but the number of such moments is quite high and does not correlate with the original.

Other moments are not so striking, but sometimes some phrases are translated in a childish manner, such as the word "shitty/shittier", which in Russian can be translated in different ways - хреново/хреновее, дерьмово/дерьмовее, хуже (which is used quite often in everyday speech by anyone), or говняно/говнянее (which is more often said by children). The last variant is occasionally found in the Dvach version, which is especially noticeable at the very beginning of the game, when Anon talks about morning mists.

Talking about the whole version of Dvach in general - it's not straight up awful, no, there are some good decisions here and there, but considering all of the above, it breaks the immersion quite nicely at times. Plus it's not fully polished on grammar and such, but since anon doesn't want to associate himself with the game anymore, he doesn't want to work with the translation any further. And besides, the translation itself is mostly a compilation of the work of another anon, who worked before him but quit, and our own, which is especially evident in the final and additional chapters. However, anon from Dvach did some interesting things - he translated some CG pictures that we couldn't get our hands on at the time. So with his permission we borrowed a couple (two, if I'm not mistaken) and added them to our build (so it is important that the final build should use images only from our archive specifically). And we also added this anon to the credits as an assistant/assets helper (for the glory of translation solidarity).

That's pretty much it.

Hello, devs! RU-tl lead Snooter here. A bit of information about the differences between the Dvach build and ours, which was mentioned above. There are actually quite a few, but here are the most important ones: 1) Names. In Dvach build Fang's name is translated as Клык, which is not quite correct, as proper names are not translated in RU-related texts. In their translation, Fang in Russian is translated literally as, well.... fang, as a specific tooth, not as a name (this is a fairly common problem in Russian adaptations and it annoys many people). In our version her name translated correctly - Фэнг, which is a direct transliteration from English (the same situation as, for example, with the surname Black, like Sirius Black - in Russian the correct one will be and is exactly Блэк, not Черный as a color). The same goes for Naser, which was translated as Нейсер, which is partly correct, but our variant - Незер is more pleasant to the ear and does not spoil the joke with NasCar so much. 2) Fang's pronouns. In the Dvach version, for the most part, all characters (even Fang herself and, most incredibly, Trish) address Fang as "she", even when it's not backed up by the plot. So the part of the narrative related to her non-binarity is lost or misplayed. In our version, we tried to avoid such moments and all the lines addressed to Fang have a neutral connotation up to a certain point (3rd and 4th endings and such). It is interesting that Russian does not use the pronoun "they" in relation to a single living being as freely as English does - it is simply wrong. Furthermore, in Russian any action is tied to the gender/sex of the speaker. For example, in English you can say "I would like to give you a tip", either a woman or a man (or somebody else) can say that, there is no mistake. But in Russian, if this phrase is said by a man, he will say "Я бы хотел дать вам совет", and if it is said by a woman, she will say "Я бы хотелА дать вам совет", the ending "А" signal who exactly says this phrase - man or a woman. Russian language is quite complicated in such things as endings, suffixes, nouns and etc., it would be difficult to describe all the rules here. So we have played with these moments by rephrasing phrases in such a way that neither feminine nor masculine pronouns are mentioned (unless, of course, it's pointed out on purpose), in a way that doesn't violate both the rules of language and the narrative of the game. And yeah... it was a pretty nerve-wracking experience. 3) Tenses. Oh, tenses... At many points in the Dvach version, the tenses in phrases are incorrectly placed. For example, Anon may comment on something in the present tense, but in the translation it suddenly becomes past, as if he is telling a story to someone, rather than commenting on a specific action that is happening here and now. Sometimes this may be appropriate, but the number of such moments is quite high and does not correlate with the original. Other moments are not so striking, but sometimes some phrases are translated in a childish manner, such as the word "shitty/shittier", which in Russian can be translated in different ways - хреново/хреновее, дерьмово/дерьмовее, хуже (which is used quite often in everyday speech by anyone), or говняно/говнянее (which is more often said by children). The last variant is occasionally found in the Dvach version, which is especially noticeable at the very beginning of the game, when Anon talks about morning mists. Talking about the whole version of Dvach in general - it's not straight up awful, no, there are some good decisions here and there, but considering all of the above, it breaks the immersion quite nicely at times. Plus it's not fully polished on grammar and such, but since anon doesn't want to associate himself with the game anymore, he doesn't want to work with the translation any further. And besides, the translation itself is mostly a compilation of the work of another anon, who worked before him but quit, and our own, which is especially evident in the final and additional chapters. However, anon from Dvach did some interesting things - he translated some CG pictures that we couldn't get our hands on at the time. So with his permission we borrowed a couple (two, if I'm not mistaken) and added them to our build (so it is important that the final build should use images only from our archive specifically). And we also added this anon to the credits as an assistant/assets helper (for the glory of translation solidarity). That's pretty much it.

MapAnon commented

2024-03-31 06:20:19 +00:00

Fang's pronouns. In the Dvach version, for the most part, all characters (even Fang herself and, most incredibly, Trish) address Fang as "she", even when it's not backed up by the plot. So the part of the narrative related to her non-binarity is lost or misplayed. In our version, we tried to avoid such moments and all the lines addressed to Fang have a neutral connotation up to a certain point (3rd and 4th endings and such).

Keep in mind the characters are selective about how they refer to fang. Not all of them take Fang's enbyism seriously so they will refer to her as she. Anon especially should internally refer to Fang as 'she', which is where I presume most of the references to Fang would be. It's been a while since I've played snoot so I'm unsure if there's some nuance with Anon's attitude to Fang, but that's the general rule. The english text should be explicit enough to tell you what it is though.

In any case, I got a snoot writer to comment on this and had this to say (keep in mind it's been a while since they've had to think about snoot as well, so all of this can't really be more than a strong suggestion unless proven otherwise):

depends on the character
naomi says she
naser flips
think reed flips
trish says they
anon says they out loud but internally sticks to she in all cases but e2

Unsure if you guys already know this, but I figure to mention it.

> 2) Fang's pronouns. In the Dvach version, for the most part, all characters (even Fang herself and, most incredibly, Trish) address Fang as "she", even when it's not backed up by the plot. So the part of the narrative related to her non-binarity is lost or misplayed. In our version, we tried to avoid such moments and all the lines addressed to Fang have a neutral connotation up to a certain point (3rd and 4th endings and such). Keep in mind the characters are selective about how they refer to fang. Not all of them take Fang's enbyism seriously so they will refer to her as she. Anon especially should internally refer to Fang as 'she', which is where I presume most of the references to Fang would be. It's been a while since I've played snoot so I'm unsure if there's some nuance with Anon's attitude to Fang, but that's the general rule. The english text should be explicit enough to tell you what it is though. In any case, I got a snoot writer to comment on this and had this to say (keep in mind it's been a while since they've had to think about snoot as well, so all of this can't really be more than a strong suggestion unless proven otherwise): ``` depends on the character naomi says she naser flips think reed flips trish says they anon says they out loud but internally sticks to she in all cases but e2 ``` Unsure if you guys already know this, but I figure to mention it.

Gexahord commented

2024-03-31 08:53:12 +00:00

Keep in mind the characters are selective about how they refer to fang. Not all of them take Fang's enbyism seriously so they will refer to her as she. Anon especially should internally refer to Fang as 'she', which is where I presume most of the references to Fang would be. It's been a while since I've played snoot so I'm unsure if there's some nuance with Anon's attitude to Fang, but that's the general rule. The english text should be explicit enough to tell you what it is though.

Yep, we know about this stuff and we took these nuances into account when making the translation, that's why I said it was a nerve-wracking experience, especially with Anon and Trish. So it's all taken care of.
👍👍👍

think reed flips

Yeah, he flips a bit, it's especially evident in e3, when Anon goes to the roof (chapter 11) and this moment happens:

> Keep in mind the characters are selective about how they refer to fang. Not all of them take Fang's enbyism seriously so they will refer to her as she. Anon especially should internally refer to Fang as 'she', which is where I presume most of the references to Fang would be. It's been a while since I've played snoot so I'm unsure if there's some nuance with Anon's attitude to Fang, but that's the general rule. The english text should be explicit enough to tell you what it is though. Yep, we know about this stuff and we took these nuances into account when making the translation, that's why I said it was a nerve-wracking experience, especially with Anon and Trish. So it's all taken care of. 👍👍👍 > think reed flips Yeah, he flips a bit, it's especially evident in e3, when Anon goes to the roof (chapter 11) and this moment happens: ![image](/attachments/91ea89a0-7670-496a-8aed-d0bf59acb933)

image.png

15 KiB

MichaelYick referenced a pull request that will close this issue

2024-04-03 07:45:24 +00:00

Fixes: #231 - New Russo Translation #232

MichaelYick closed this issue

2024-04-08 05:44:20 +00:00

MichaelYick referenced this issue from a commit

2024-04-08 05:44:46 +00:00

Merge pull request 'Fixes: #231 - New Russo Translation' (#232) from nurusso into master

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